When You’re Dating Someone New, Should You Sleep With Them Right Away?
Fuck first, or wait awhile? With Cathy Vartuli from http://www.TheIntimacyDojo.com, Yoni Alkan from http://www.ElementsofSexuality.com, Liz Powell from http://www.SexPositivePsych.com and Caroline Carrington from http://www.JewelInTheLotusCoaching.com, with special guest, sexy librarian!
Liz: So when you’re dating someone new, should you have sex with them first or make them wait awhile? I’m Liz Powell from http://www.SexPositivePsych.com/
Cathy: I’m Cathy Vartuli from http://www.TheIntimacyDojo.com/
Yoni: I’m Yoni Alkan from http://www.ElementsofSexuality.com/
Caroline: And I’m Caroline Carrington from http://www.JewelInTheLotusCoaching.com/
Sexy Librarian: And I am the disembodied voice in the background.
Liz: I love our disembodied voices.
Cathy: So fuck first, or wait awhile?
Liz: Right, fuck first or wait awhile? So we know that we have some different camps here and people who have tried different strategies. I’m a mega sexual and as a mega sexual I pretty much always fuck first.
Cathy: Can you define mega sexual?
Liz: Sure. So, a mega sexual is a person who requires sexual connection and chemistry in order to develop a romantic connection so I have to know that sex is working with someone before I’ll be romantically attached so for me, I’ve actually had people that I dated where they’re one of the slow movers so they don’t want to get sexual quickly and by date three and four if we haven’t had sex I’m losing interest coz that’s part of how I am, like until I have that connection with you I don’t feel as deeply connected.
Caroline: Can we define what you mean by sex?
Liz: Sure, so so the people that I’m thinking of all we did was kiss and cuddle.
Caroline: Oh okay.
Liz: So I’m looking for anything that has an intent to towards orgasm, touching of any kind of erogenous zones that sort of thing right? So.
Caroline: But it doesn’t have to be fucking or intercourse.
Liz: No, it doesn’t have to be intercourse. Like it could be oral, it could be manual, it can be any of those things, anything that moves towards orgasm or attempt to orgasm would be fine.
Caroline: But it has to be goal oriented [Inaudible 00:01:31]
Liz: No it doesn’t have to be goal oriented it’s that like there’s a difference between like I’m touching your leg because I’m saying hi, I’m touching your leg or like I’m touching your leg. Where there is a sexual intent and that’s more what I’m walking about because for lay folk what I’ve seen is that when I told them sexual intent, they don’t necessarily understand that terminology so much as like, were you touching them hoping that they would have an orgasm eventually as a sort of part of what you’re doing or were you just touching them to touch them and have this whole connection.
Caroline: Or to touch them so they can experience intense amount of orgasm didn’t happen.
Yoni: Yes. Yeah
Caroline: That’s what I’m most interested in.
Liz: But then how would you differentiate between like the intense amount of pleasure you get from a massage, versus intense amount of pleasure you that you would count as sex.
Caroline: What the intention would be
Caroline: The differentiating factor
Liz: So how would you know the intention?
Caroline: Ahhh, sometimes you would set that up hopefully. Hopefully you would set that up before you start.
Cathy: You are talking about a verbal agreement.
Caroline: Yeah, verbal agreements but I think you would also know by the quality of the touch that you’re receiving and so context.
Cathy: Yeah, context is a big part of it and I want to make sure you come back to the quality of the touch because I think there’s a lot of people that don’t know how to give different quality of touch so we’ll do a different one but like for me I’m demisexual, okay, I need to have a heart connection with someone before I want to get sexual
Liz: Se we’re like opposite of the opposite end of the spectrum.
Cathy: Right, but I’m the same way, if I’ve been out with three or four dates with someone and there hasn’t been some kind of chemistry, I’m like, no, why bother? And as you said earlier, if they’re not good in bed, there’s no chemistry.
Sexy Librarian: Yeah, why would you bother? Just be friends because the romantic relationship or sexual relationship complicates things, so if you really enjoy that person’s company by all means, enjoy their company but if there’s not a sexual connection, then leave it as friends. You’ll have a much longer relationship I think.
Liz: I totally agree.
Cathy: No. I do have a friend that I, Rick and I are super romantic but we are not sexual so it is okay to have that if you want to.
Yoni: But but your relationship has been going on long time.
Yoni: That’s not like oh I just met the person
Cathy: Yeah, it’s not three dates or anything like that.
Yoni: Yeah, exactly from a cis-hetero male point, it’s a little bit different because the place that I’m in but I go out on a date with someone in order to enjoy their time but enjoy my time with them, if it gets sexual or not it doesn’t really matter, if it does, yeah great I’m all for it. If it doesn’t get sexual after a while and I would like it to, I would basically open a conversation about it because, what are we doing here we better kind of figure out why are we here?
Cathy: I know there’s a lot of people out there that talk about just using looks or just knowing, I think we’re all advocating using our words.
Liz: Look, I’m a terrible psychic. So bad at it, I’m just the worst, I’ve never won the lottery, like I’m so bad at guessing and I just want you to tell me. If you want me to kiss you, just like ask, you can even say like, your lips look so lovely, I’d love to feel how they feel on mine. Right, there’s all sort of ways to ask what you want that are hot, sexy and fun and not would you like to kiss me now?
Yoni: Ahh.. I would have to check.
Liz: Right, see you can make it awkward or you can make it sexy sometimes awkward is fun too.
Yoni: Yeah. True.
Caroline: I also think the importance of building the container, I know I freak people out but this all the time, the first day I’m like so, what do you want to do here? And for me that isn’t necessarily about sign the dotted line and you have to commit your life to somebody.
Liz: You are now required.
Caroline: No, like is this friends-with-benefits thing? Are we just playing around? Are you looking for a deep long term-committed relationship and are the two of you actually in alignment? Because for me I when I explore sexually with somebody especially when intercourse is involved, I have a lot of attachment that shows up. So I tend to actually delay intercourse for quite a long time until I figured out if that person is actually available for the kind of attachment that I want and that’s it, it may not intercourse for you out there but figuring out where that line is when the attachment starts running that’s been really really helpful then I can build, I can have lots of different connections with lots of different people and I just go oh, we’re just going to run some, it’s very [Inaudible 00:06:03] language. But we’re just going to run some energy together or we’re going to breathe together but that can be a really fun date for me.
Liz: Yeah.. Yeah..
Caroline: You’re like, that can’t be… That’s no fun at all…
Liz: No it can. No I got really great energy sex with people that we never had any kind of physical touch or connection other than like our hands or something, we never touch each other’s genitals or anything and had really really hot energy sex.
Caroline: And I have lovers that I’ve been lovers with for four years and for various reasons they’re not right person for me to fuck so we don’t. We have, we ride that edge, really fun to ride that edge but we know what the container is and we’re both really happy and we agreed on what it is so it actually gives more freedom.
Yoni: And I think that if you bring that up on the first date, if you get serious and just talk about it and it freaks the other person out, that might be a good filter for you that this is someone that is not on your level of communication granted maybe other people will not feel like that.
Liz: We might be [Inaudible 00:07:06].
Yoni: Yeah, we might be a little bit in the over communication but that’s the way we like our lives but yes, it can be frightening for someone I’m sure but then it really depends what are you looking for.
Liz: And setting those expectations are so helpful so much of what I see folks coming to me with and even with my friend group is, was this a date date or just like a friend date, do they want to have sex with me, now that we’ve had sex do they want to date or do they want to just be hooking up? What are we now? Right, you have all these questions that they ask your friends rather than asking the person who are developing the relationship and
Cathy: And the friends give them an answers and they decide on that, and the other person is like we never talked about that.
Liz: And we never talked about it. Yeah.
Yoni: And that’s also the question why I approach it with I’m here to have fun. However that fun will be, what it will look like, that’s what I’m aiming for, aiming to enjoy my time with this person.
Liz: And having that information allows you to adjust your priorities coz you know I’m entrepreneur, I’m very busy right? So most of the people that I see these days, I see them once a month if we’re dating and we’re not like serious serious dating so, I need to know where we’re at and give them that expectation as well so most times when I’m on a first date I’ll tell people like, hey just so you know here’s what I have available in my life right now, something may change and we can always talk re-negotiating that, if that’s not serving both of our needs anymore but right now this is what I have available.
Yoni: Yeah. That’s great, do you have anything to add on this topic? I want to come back and talk about the quality of touch.
Yoni: Quality of touch.
Liz: Now I’m excited.
Cathy: Leave comments below.