Allison Moon from joins Cathy Vartuli from and shares what she most likes about vulvas… learn more here!

Cathy: Hey, everyone. This is Cathy Vartuli from, and I’m here today with Allison Moon from

Hey, Allison!

Allison: Hi! How it’s going?

Cathy: Good! I’m so glad you’re here with us.

Allison: I’m glad I’m here too.

Cathy: So as a woman who likes women, can you tell us your favorite thing about a vulva?

Allison: Vulvas, there are so many awesome things. I think my favorite thing about vulvas is how strong they are and how much sensation they can handle and at the same time how subtle the sensations they can feel. So the full range of everything like the lightest breath to passing a baby through, all is part of the amazing anatomy that women have. It’s pretty powerful stuff.

Cathy: Yeah. I happen to enjoy them very much myself. So they’re very fun.

What is something you particularly like about when you’re with a woman? That you enjoy about being with a woman?

Allison: I think that the cool thing about being with women is that because there’s not a whole lot of rules about how sex is supposed to look between women, it can be a co-creation every time. It’s not like one person has to be on top pumping away and the other person has to be on the bottom squeezing away or whatever. It’s really about what do you want to create at that time.

And there’s this hilarious statistic of the average sexual coupling in America, right? So it’s like you hear the story of like the heterosexual coupling is like two minutes long; the average gay male coupling is like seven minutes; and the average lesbian coupling, the last time I heard the statistic, was 45 minutes, average. Average! Which means there’s kind of no clear beginning or end, and there’s no money shot which is kind of beautiful because it does allow for exploration and expansion.

Cathy: Yeah. A lot of people, especially heterosexual sex, the way we’ve been educated is like you’re going for the money shot, and it’s kind of a clear goal there and you don’t meander along the way.

Allison: Exactly it is. There is so much room to explore when you’re just with a lover, actually like what makes their body feel good, and it can be a really beautiful shared exploration.

Cathy: Yeah. I think without that goal, two people can kind of go from A to B, like they might touch the breast and then go to the vulva and then they might go someplace else and go back. It’s not like we’re going to go from A to B to C; we’re done.

Allison: Right, the base system or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Cathy: It’s like paint by numbers.

Allison: Yeah, totally.

Cathy: Yeah. If you wanted to give as a woman, who have sex with woman, if you wanted to give men a couple of tips on how to really drive the vulva, I know that’s one of your classes, what would you recommend?

Allison: Yes. In How to Drive a Vulva, I teach a couple of major points. The first one is if you’re a man who sleeps with women and wants to be better at it, the kind of classic lesbian sex tips, the first thing to know is listen, and listen not just with your ears but really listen with your whole body. It is very, very confusing and complicated sometimes listening to a woman’s arousal system. I mean we are a byzantine conduit down there. It’s complicated stuff. And even I own a vulva, I still can’t figure out necessarily another person’s the first time. So the learning to listen really energetically, really focused listening, really kind of the soft tai chi elements of listening.

Cathy: Being present.

Allison: Presence and really being able to just feel into the spaces is huge.

The second one, which is much more pragmatic, is learn to use things that aren’t just your penis. Penis-vagina sex is great, but it’s not the whole thing; and if it’s the whole thing, then you need to get better at learning other skill sets.

For instance, the best sexual organs that I can say, hand sex is so underrated, so underrated. It is the wonder bread — I guess that’s a horrible analogy — wonder bread, whatever — but hands are just the bread and butter of lesbian sex. And there are all these stories about strap-ons and something like that. The toys are involved in lesbian sex, but if you don’t know how to use your hands then you really are at a deficit. And hands have so much power. They are so strong. They are hard when you’re not.

Cathy: Flexible on different angles and combining them.

Allison: Yeah, they’re phenomenal. Hands are wonderful. So learn to use your hands. Even before you learn to get good at cunnilingus, learn to use your hands, and that will change everything.

Cathy: Well, and that can help you last longer if you’re doing cunnilingus and your mouth or your jaws get tied, you can switch back and forth, and that’s the 45 minute.

Allison: Yeah, totally.

My third tip would be learn to not necessarily be attached to outcomes. This is something that happens in sorts of sex where it’s like if I didn’t get them to come, then I’m a failure in bed. And it’s like there’s so much more room for sharing pleasure with another person that doesn’t have to look like what we’ve been learning in porn or what we’ve been learning from our friends in the locker room. There’s just so much more.

And as adult men, you have the power to explore these things and become that lover that your girlfriend didn’t have before. You become the first guy she has ever been with who listens, who uses his hands, who is actually not invested in an outcome, more excited about exploration. And if you can be that guy, you’ve just blown her mind. Like there are so few men who actually even care about this kind of stuff that if you can be the sensitive awesome dude, you’re going to rock her world.

Cathy: Yeah. And that’s a good thing.

Allison: It is a good thing.

Cathy: I love it when there is not that agenda. I can feel it. If someone is intending for me to have an orgasm or needs me to have an orgasm, it’s like there’s pressure and all of a sudden I’m not enjoying the process as much.

Allison: Oh, yeah. And then the orgasm just disappears even if you’re close.

Cathy: Yeah.

Allison: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Cathy: Yeah. And you were talking about porn. I think a lot of people that watch porn, they think that whenever two people connect, they are supposed to know what to do. So I love it when a man asks me, “Do you like this?” or “How does your body work?” rather than having watched porn, a lot of people are like “I should just jump in bed and blow her mind and never talk to her.” Everybody is a little different.

Allison: Right. And I think sharing that vulnerability of asking is a huge take. That’s actually really useful because where else would you just not ask? Like if you’re in a meeting and you don’t know what page that your boss is talking from, you ask, “What page are we on?” Yet in sex we’re not asking.

Cathy: Yeah, we don’t talk.

Allison: It’s terrible. So I think like learning to just kind of detach from that ego of having to be the dude who knows everything and asking, which is how you’ll learn things and know everything.

Cathy: You build intimacy, connection.

Allison: Yeah. And I think with porn, just like with other lovers, especially when you’re dating somebody new, you can always tell when somebody is just doing the move because it worked on Girlfriend #4. I mean there’s forgiveness in there. I understand. I do the same thing. I’m like, “Well, my last girlfriend liked it when I did this.” But at the same time, understanding that even though we might all share a similar equipment, it doesn’t mean we like it touched the same way.

Cathy: Well, even day to day that can change. I liked that yesterday a lot, but today, no, it’s pissing me off.

Allison: Oh, yeah, especially hormones and cycles. I mean cervices are very strange. Sometimes cervices love being rammed really hard, and sometimes cervices are like, “Do not even look at me.” We can’t really look at them very easily but don’t even think about touching me.

But yeah, that’s something. Women’s bodies are very complicated, and I think going into it and understanding that and at the same time giving both you and your partners space to know that. I mean oftentimes women really don’t have access to understanding how they’re feeling about their body, so taking the time to ask questions and let them really think about it and answer.

Cathy: Yeah, let be an adventure, curiosity, rather than this is what we must do to be good people or to be satisfied.

Allison: Totally. One of my favorite things to do is to schedule due dates as they call them in some places. Especially if you’ve been with somebody for a really long time, this is like the most romantic thing that a lot of women have ever heard is like just schedule an evening where you’re just going to learn about her body.

Cathy: Oh, nice.

Allison: So there’s no outcome attachment and it’s just like we’re just going to spend two hours, maybe have a glass of wine, light candles, do the whole romantic thing. But it’s not about how fast can you get to putting your penis in. It’s more about learning what kind of touch she likes.

Cathy: It could be just on the arm even.

Allison: Yeah! And really just kind of going back to basics. Especially if you’ve been in the relationship for a long time, you take these things for granted, and we kind of assume that we know each other’s bodies. But there’s a lot of room for like, “Oh, wow, I didn’t realize if I just stroke her clit on this side slightly with a slightly lubricated finger, oh, my God, she is freaking out.” Like how cool is that? And you would never have known.

Cathy: Yeah, it’s a wonderland.

Allison: It’s a wonderland. And removing the stakes really helps with that.

Cathy: Yeah, thank you so much.

Allison: Thank you so much.

Cathy: Please leave comments below and come back. We’ll have another video coming shortly.

Allison: Thanks. Thanks.


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